More Humiliation
I just finished reading Paul A. Cohen’s book, History in Three Keys, The Boxers as Event, Experience, and Myth. Expect a positive review in the next week. I mention it now because some quotes from the book are included in the review below.
I bought a copy of, The Xingyi Quan of the Chinese Army, Huang Bo Nien’s Xingyi Fist and Weapon Instruction, by Dennis Rovere, with translation by Chow Hon Huen. It’s published by Blue Snake Books, Berkeley, California. It’s a waste of money. I bought it because Dojo Rat gave it a positive review. I realize now that he gave it a positive review because he thought it might be of interest to those of us who like history. Well–I’ll be damned–I’m going to get my money’s worth by having some fun reviewing it!
The book is a translation of a short manual about Xingyi training from the 1920’s, supposedly used by Chang Kai-sheik’s army and the KMT. It would have been a pamphlet except that Dennis Rovere added a lot of his own useless material, explanations and pictures. With the exception of a section on Bayonet Fighting, which we will address shortly, the original manual is nearly identical to material already published in nearly every Xingyi book. Take for example this translation by John Groschwitz, The Xingyi Boxing Manual. This kind of manual is meant to be memorized and contemplated, but every single detail needs to be taught and digested over years. They all read like a teacher’s lecture notes. (That’s OK, I guess, but did we need another one?)
Why was the manual published in the first place? Dennis Rovere doesn’t seem to know. The answer is that it was a salvo in a political debate of the 1920’s. Take for instance this satirical note by Lu Xun (probably the best known intellectual of the “New Culture” movement) comparing Kungfu guys to the Boxer Uprising, published in New Youth, 1918:
Recently, there have been a fair number of people scattered about who have been energetically promoting boxing [quan]. I seem to recall this having happened once before. But at that time the promoters were the Manchu court and high officials, where as now they are Republican educators–people occupying a quite different place in society. I have no way of telling, as an outsider, whether their goals are the same or different.
These educators have now renamed the old methods “that the Goddess of the Ninth Heaven transmitted to the Yellow Emperor”…”the new martial arts” or “Chinese-style gymnastics” and they make young people practice them. I’ve heard there are a lot of benefits to be had from them. Two of the more important may be listed here:
(1) They have a physical education function. It’s said that when Chinese take instruction in foreign gymnastics it isn’t effective; the only thing that works for them is native-style gymnastics (that is, boxing). I would have thought that if one spread one’s arms and legs apart and picked up a foreign bronze hammer or wooden club in one’s hands, it ought probably to have some “efficacy” as far as one’s muscular development was concerned. But it turns out this isn’t so! Naturally, therefore, the only course left to them is to switch to learning such tricks as “Wu Song disengaging himself from his manacles.” No doubt this is because Chinese are different from foreigners physiologically.
(2) They have a military function. The Chinese know how to box; the foreigners don’t know how to box. So if one day the two meet and start fighting it goes without saying the Chinese will win…. The only thing is that nowadays people always use firearms when they fight. Although China “had firearms too in ancient times” it doesn’t have them any more. So if the Chinese don’t learn the military art of using rattan shields, how can they protect themselves against firearms? I think–since they don’t elaborate on this, this reflects “my own very limited and shallow understanding”–I think that if they keep at it with their boxing they are bound to reach a point where they become “invulnerable to firearms.” (I presume by doing exercises to benefit their internal organs?) Boxing was tried once before–in 1900. Unfortunately on that occasion its reputation may be considered to have suffered a decisive setback. We’ll see how it fares this time around. (This is from p. 230-231 of Paul A. Cohen’s, History in Three Keys.)
The introduction of Rovere’s book claims that the famous martial artist’s Sun Lutang and Wang Xiangzhai both taught for the KMT. The question however, is not who taught there, but what was being taught. If you pick up a copy of Marrow of the Nation and read chapter 7, you’ll see that the Guo Shu (national martial arts) movement was wide spread in the 20’s. No doubt xingyi was part of the curriculum. But I’ve yet to see any evidence that students of the military academy actually developed into top level martial artists– perhaps they did–but that would be beside the point. The point being that what mattered was organization, leadership, machine gun practice, strategic thinking, etc. Bayonet training was the one form of hand-to-hand combat training that had some significance for modern warfare. And that training came directly from the West where it was well developed.
Quoting from History in Three Keys again:
In a letter to his sister, Pvt. Harold Kinman of the First Marine Battalion, who initially saw combat in the Philippines, then in China, and after recovering from a wound in the U.S. Naval Hospital in Yokohama, again in the Philippines, provided an American perspective on the march from Tianjin to Beijing [this of course during the Boxer Rebellion, 1900]: “That march is imprinted on my memory that nothing can efface. It was full of terrible experiences, short of water, and forced to march after you were almost unable to walk. Fighting for your life every day, surrounded by Chinese Imperial troops numbering from 30,000 to 40,000 strong. Cutting your way out at the point of a bayonet while the shot and shell were flying all around you.” On one occasion, after “putting the Chinese to utter rout,” the marines watched as the crack British cavalry, composed of Sikhs, turned and fled in the face of a Chinese charge. Appalled at the “cowardice” of the Sikhs, the Americans, according to Kinman, sprang to their feet and charged the Chinese cavalry with fixed bayonets: “There were hundreds killed and wounded we gave no quarter nor asked for any so you see we took no prisoners we killed them all that fell into our hands. I will now close by wishing you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.”
Nearly half of The Xingyi Quan of the Chinese Army, is dedicated to Bayonet Fighting. It makes the claim that Xingyi is used to teach bayonet fighting, that the techniques originally come from spear fighting. It is obvious to anyone looking at the pictures that this is just a political claim, meant to give xenophobic cover to what was essentially a humiliating imitation of “Foreign Imperialist” training methods. All the techniques pictured in the book can be found in any army manual, anywhere. The book makes four claims for the uniqueness of Xingyi Bayonet training; 1) the back heel is down, 2) stick to the threat’s weapon rather than knock it, 3) don’t hit with the butt of the gun, 4) don’t lunge. All of these claims are obviously absurd. Just look at the pictures I pulled off of Google Images. They also have nothing to do with Xingyi.
Needless to say, I do not recommend the book. I don’t know what Blue Snake Books was thinking when they published it. However, I did get a good laugh out of this bio:
Dennis Rovere is an internationally recognized expert in military, close combat and Chinese military strategy. He is the first non-Asian to receive special recognition as a martial arts instructor from the Government of the Republic of China, and the first civilian to train with the Bodyguards Instructors’ Unit of the Chinese Special Military Police (Wu Jing). Since receiving his instructor’s certification in 1974, Mr. Rovere has taught martial arts to both civilians and military units, including reconnaissance instructors and UN peacekeepers….
Them’s some pretty heady credentials I’ve never heard of, and what is an architect from Calgary teaching those UN peacekeepers anyway?
UPDATE: A link to this post got a whopping 36 Comments on a Forum called Rum Soaked Fist! My Youtube Videos African Bagua 1 & 2 and Pure Internal all jumped up about 600 views in the last day. I’ll put my response to all the controversy in the comments section below, and on the forum. Join the fray!
Related posts:
Haven’t read the book, so can’t say a thing about it, but your recension has made you famous. You got bashed heavily over at RSF, for the above article, your real IMA vids and the African bagua stuff.
Hi Scott, as a theatre artist from Ottawa, I outrank all Calgarian architects and thus regularly travel back in time to consult for the League of Nations! Hope all goes well, D.
What follows is what I posted on the Rum Soaked Fist Forum, thanks Bai Yiming!
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Thank you for all the love.
I love a good fight.
And I have poured myself a shot of whiskey.
First off let me say how much I admire the high level of discourse you have going here. People are making statements and backing them up with references and reasoned experience.
For me, this is a moral fight. Be forewarned, if you publish a book about Chinese martial arts history and you don’t know what you are talking about, expect to feel the cold steel of my typepad.
Tom, Josh and a few others raised the idea that perhaps Rovere was not trying to write a book about history, and thus his book shouldn’t be judged on this basis. That’s a good defense, however, the very first paragraph of the book reads:
“Throughout Chinese History, vast numbers of books have been written on every aspect of human life. Unfortunately, only a small percentage of them have been translated into Western languages. Because of this many misconceptions regarding Chinese culture are promulgated in the West, both wittingly and unwittingly. Even the most superficial of readings of Chinese literature would dispel these fictions, but the language barrier has blocked the Western reader.
In no field is this sad state of affairs more apparent than in the history of Chinese martial arts.” (from the Forward p. xv)
Then we have on page. xxvii, two pages titled “Objective of the Book,” in which the original author of the manual, Huang Bo Nian, drops this piece of historic revisionism:
“All of the bayonet methods [in the book] derive from famous ancient and current spear experts. These techniques all come from years of practice, teaching, and practical combat experience. If you practice with a bayonet, you will increase your efficiency.”
During the Boxer Uprising (1900) the one Chinese fighting force that was even capable of putting up a feeble resistance to American, Japanese, French, Russian, and British troops, was a force of 10,000 men who had been trained and drilled by Western advisers, they were Western style troops. The Bayonet training shown in this book came from two generations of Western teachers. Heck, Chang Kai-shek was a Methodist who studied in Military Science in Communist Moscow!
The martial artists of this time were caught up in a swirl of martial prowess and humiliation. They were trying to defend themselves from attacks on the value of martial arts. The publication of “pure” military fighting manuals, which claimed an ancient pedigree, were part of their feeble defense.
The truth is, Chinese culture does not fit in boxes.
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As for my African Bagua Videos 1 & 2. I have changed my opinion some in the last year, as you can see if you read posts in the Baguazhang or History categories. But the basic premise still stands. Africa and China have much in common religiously, and there is a meaningful parallel between African martial dances and Chinese martial arts.
Chinese martial arts is a theatrical performing religious tradition, interwoven with ritual healing, exorcism, and trance-possession which can actually be used for fighting. A religious-dance culture can be found in Africa which has these same attributes.
Prior to the 20th Century there may have been some part of China, or some Chinese military force somewhere, in which pure martial arts were practiced. It’s possible. Nearly all Chinese scholarship in the 20th Century has pursued this line of reasoning. China had the highest literacy rate of any country in the world for 2000 years, yet almost nothing written about pure martial arts. They have mined the storehouses of knowledge digging everywhere for scrolls and of the few they have found, even some of those are fakes.
It’s time to give up on that idea. Martial arts, Opera, Religion, and healing arts have all suffered great losses because of it. The truth may hurt, but the richness of Daoist, martial, ritual theater is worth trying to recover. And you guys have a role to play in that.
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As for my “Pure Internal,” video, I would have thought that the part criticizing long and short power would have been the controversial part. Is shaking really that controversial? I’d be surprised if any famous master disagreed. Perhaps my wild eyed display deserves some constructive criticism, or a humorous video response. I welcome it.
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Naturally, all of your criticisms are appropriate. I took a dig at Rovere’s credentials and that was barbaric of me. (What was he teaching those UN soldiers? How to say please and thank you to Hezbollah? Excuse me if I have a little contempt for the UN.) Shame on me. Shame. Shame.
Still, reading his book one might wonder if he has the 10,000 hours of Xingyi practice most of us would consider minimum for a teacher.
Blind Sage said, “Read [Scott's] bio, he’s about performance…. well that and apparently showing the rest of us how we don’t really understand IMA, while smiling and wishing us a happy day.” Thank you for reading my bio, it was the most respectful thing you could have done– I feel so….understood.
I have now finished the whiskey.
Scott, you may have missed the fact that Rum Soaked Fist is the old Emptyflower Mk 1.0 under new name. After the famous split and stealing of the name, this is what they changed the name to. So, they are basically the same people who had already “reviewed” your African Bagua vids and the Black Taoist response videos.
Thanks Jose, your right, I had no idea what I was dealing with.
By the way your responses over there are great! I’m having trouble keeping up, things are moving so fast. I’m not even sure I ever saw the review on Empty Flower.
I’m enjoying it all, and feeling the humility of being the center of attention of a group of “men” who call themselves Rum Soaked First.
To my knowlege Wang Xiang Zhai never taught the army directly. However at some pont in time he did send his student Han Xing Yuen to teach the Chinese army spear techniques to be used with rifles affixed with bayonettes.
FWIW
John
John, I find this highly probable, since spear techniques are a good base from which to evolve a set of good, simple methods of moving the rifle and using the bayonet. I think part of the issue is that I wouldn’t call the result Xingyi or Yiquan. It would simply be “some martial arts spear stuff adpated to make a simple bayonet fighting curriculum”. I know a spear form called Five Tigers Spear, from the Jing Wu lineage, a Northern method. I could easily take that, plus whatever I know of short staff and Jo and make a set of exercises that recruits could drill to know how to handle the bayonet. It wouldn’t be Jing Wu though, nor would it be any kind of “martial arts”. Although Scott was a lot more “offended” than I am by the book, I do think it being called “The Hsing I of the Chinese Army” is misleading. If it had been called “The Bayonet basic techniques that the chinese Army adapted from some Xingyi spear methods” it would have been much more truthful!
Jose, that’s a good way to go– it’s not real xingyi or yiquan. But it also seems improbable that they would discard western style bayonet training, if anything they were trying to add to it or improve it. But people do strange things, that’s why the US Army has the expression SNAFU.
My main beef with the book is that what was actually going on, what motivated the writing and publication of the original text, was a project of stripping and eviscerating the connections between religion, theater, and martial arts. By republishing the book in an uncritical way he contributed to this.
I know I seem extreme to some people for taking this stand, but so much of the artistic religious knowledge of the past seems to have been lost because of this process of humiliation. It’s time to start trying to recover it.
Scott, I agree, sympathize and support. The problem is that the “evisceration” you mentio was the product of many converging reasons – modernity, both national pride and a deep sense of humiliation and inferiority, politics and so on – and that to those of us in the West, and many in the East, the reasons for the evisceration are still present. And it’s hard for people whose primary interest in the martial arts was initially self-defense or fighting – or fantasizing about fighting – to understand all the social context that involved the martial arts. I daresay that many of the practitioners in the older times were fully aware that the martial arts were “not only to kick butt” because they trained with their family, village, priests, etc. but many of us in the West need to relearn that.
On the question of “fantasizing about fighting”, most of us have gone through at least one phase of “wanting to kick butt” and imagining what it would be like to crush and destroy a biker gang (here in Portugal more like a neo-Nazi gang in my case, but you get to choose your own target of choice).
In my case, I was fortunate to have joined my first Karate school (at age18) strictly for the sports and fitness benefits, and because I had a bunch of friends at the same school and it was a fun, social thing to do. Again, luckily, I was introduced to Qigong practice around the age of 22 and cured myself of serious disease perhaps due to it. So, even though I did eventually go through the phase of “fantasy” (in my case more like wondering what would happen if…) I was already well acquainted with the many benefits that the martial arts had, and so the “fantasy” wasn’t too bad.
But most people join martial arts schools for those reasons, and it’s hard to make them understand that there is A LOT more to it than just fighting, or even sports and fitness.
That’s a really good point Jose,
Of course we all fantasize.
I had already been studying martial arts for several different reasons but the thing that got me to practice 4-6 hours a day was that I wanted dance training, but when I was between 18 and 22 nearly all the male dance teachers died of AIDS.
Hello,
For someone without experience in the topic in question you do have balls to write the review. Unlike yours, Mr. Rovere’s replay was quiet enlightening.
Yep, I got’m. Balls I mean.